Exploring Death Valley with J.F. Penn
Today we journey into Death Valley, one of the most extreme and enigmatic places on Earth. With scorching heat, ghost towns lost to time, and ancient landscapes shaped by wind and fire, this desert is more than just a national park—it’s a thriller novel in its own right.
Joining me is bestselling thriller author J.F. Penn, whose latest novel uses Death Valley’s haunting terrain as a backdrop. We talk about the real and fictional mysteries of this brutal yet breathtaking landscape, exploring how it strips away the comforts of civilization and exposes the raw human spirit.
From sun-scorched ghost towns to the hidden layers beneath salt flats, this conversation blends adventure, history, and the thrill of the unknown. If you’ve ever wondered what stories the desert might tell—this is the episode for you.
Death Valley by J.F. Penn is available here. Here's what it's all about:
A merciless desert. An unstoppable storm. Time is running out.
The Desert Sanctuary promises an exclusive escape for the ultra-wealthy, a five-star oasis in Death Valley's unforgiving landscape. But when a devastating sandstorm cuts the resort off from civilization, paradise becomes a prison—and then a killing ground.
Here's that link to Death Valley by JF Penn again.
Takeaways:
- Death Valley, known for its extreme temperatures, is the hottest place on Earth, reaching up to 134 degrees Fahrenheit.
- This national park features diverse landscapes, including shifting sand dunes and ancient salt flats, which hold geological mysteries.
- The area is steeped in history, with ghost towns that tell tales of fortune and loss amidst the harsh desert environment.
- J.F. Penn's thrilling narrative explores the psychological impact of isolation in Death Valley, revealing human nature under duress.
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Transcript
Death Valley.
Speaker A:The name alone sounds menacing.
Speaker A:It's one of the hottest places on earth.
Speaker A:A land of shifting dunes, jagged mountains and ancient secrets buried beneath the sand.
Speaker A:A place where temperatures soar high enough to melt tires.
Speaker A:Where ghost towns whisper of lost fortunes, and where no one knows quite what the sand is hiding.
Speaker A:Hey, I'm Luke.
Speaker A:I'm an author of archaeological adventure novels.
Speaker A:I travel the world looking for stories to put into my books and to share with you right here on the Adventure Story podcast.
Speaker A:Now, Death Valley is beautiful, it's brutal and it's certainly filled with stories waiting to be told.
Speaker A:One such story is the new action thriller by J.F.
Speaker A:penn, who will be our guide to this intriguing place.
Speaker A:A New York Times and a USA Today best selling author, J.F.
Speaker A:penn is known for action packed thrillers that weave together ancient mysteries and real world adventure.
Speaker A:Hi Jo, thanks for joining me today.
Speaker B:Hi Luke, it's great to be on the show.
Speaker A:Oh, it really is great to welcome you.
Speaker A:First of all, then what and where is the scary named Death Valley?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's such an awesome thriller name, but it is actually the largest national park in the USA and it is also the hottest, driest and has the lowest point in North America at Badwater Basin.
Speaker B: ley National park in November: Speaker B:I did a day trip from Las Vegas.
Speaker B:And so people know you can just a day trip there or you can stay overnight and, and also I would say probably the, the word sort of desert.
Speaker B:And it is a sort of desert area, but desert is anywhere with very little rain.
Speaker B:And that is kind of what Death Valley is famous for, this sort of very dry place full of salt flats.
Speaker B:And I did want to mention the highest temperature ever recorded in that area, 56.7 degrees centigrade, which is just.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean that you basically die.
Speaker B:134 degrees Fahrenheit for Americans or anyone else.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Wow, that's insane, isn't it?
Speaker A:57 degrees.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean I've been in 42.
Speaker B:I think you've been in that sort of 40s range and that is a real killer.
Speaker B:But I know your audience also like weird stories.
Speaker B:And that area is also not far from Area 51.
Speaker B:And our guide who was very knowledgeable and we talked about geology and all of this stuff and then he just threw in how many times he's seen weird lights and weird flying things around that area.
Speaker B:So it's certainly a very, very interesting area.
Speaker B:Both Naturally.
Speaker B:And also for some of the weird stuff that goes on.
Speaker A:I love things like that and my books feature those sorts of things quite a lot, as I think, you know.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I thought you'd find that fun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So deserts specifically are.
Speaker A:They've got this breathtaking, awe inspiring, scary, sublime sort of feeling to them, but they're also intriguing.
Speaker A:There's this thing about it that you're like, what if I was just to walk that way and not stop?
Speaker A:You know, what draws people?
Speaker A:What is it about them that sort of has that romantic element that draws people to visit them or spend time in them, do you think?
Speaker B:Well, I think that perhaps there's just something really deep inside our genetic history.
Speaker B:When we were nomads back in the past, you know, there's something that we still remember even though we're urban creatures now, that when we go to a desert, when we see this open space and in these places, like I said, the Death Valley is not desert with sand dunes, but these salt flats sort of go on forever.
Speaker B:And there are these tall mountains and different hills and things, but it's almost like you can look out and you see the horizon and something's calling to us out there in the wilderness and that stark natural beauty, but also the simplicity of life.
Speaker B:Because when it comes down to it, you know, all we've.
Speaker B:We're both surrounded by stuff, right, in our urban lives.
Speaker B:But out there you need shelter from the sun and the cold and the.
Speaker B:The elements and you need water.
Speaker B:And if you have those two things, you can live for longer.
Speaker B:But it's like we forget those basic things.
Speaker B:And I was thinking about this question also from the spiritual angle.
Speaker B:You said the word sublime and I guess we have awe and wonder and the monotheistic religions, you know, Judaism, Christianity and Islam come out of desert people.
Speaker B:And there's something about being in the desert that makes you think of how small you are in the universe.
Speaker B:And that obviously leads to thoughts of God or what might be out there.
Speaker B:And in terms of Death Valley, I also wanted to mention that it is a international dark sky park, which means it's very remote, remote, and there isn't the light pollution.
Speaker B:And so they have photography trips there and you'll see a lot of stars that you don't even see anywhere else.
Speaker B:Like, even if you go half an hour outside the park, towards Las Vegas, obviously one of the brightest places on Earth, you can't really see the stars.
Speaker B:You see the sphere lighting up there, but.
Speaker B:So I think that's what I find.
Speaker B:Draws me back Again and again to desert places.
Speaker A:I feel that totally agree with you about the sort of religious idea of that.
Speaker A:And I wonder how sort of almost tragic it is that a lot of us, myself included, you know, I'm 40 this year and I've probably never seen the sky in the same way as our, as our forefathers and our ancestors would have done on a nightly basis.
Speaker A:Because I've never gone that far away, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, certainly on a nightly basis.
Speaker B:I mean, I do remember because I didn't stay overnight in Death Valley, I just did this day trip.
Speaker B:If I went again, I would certainly stay overnight for one of these things.
Speaker B:They actually have a dark sky festival.
Speaker B:But when I was in Australia, one of my other desert experiences, I went to Western Australia back in my 20s and sort of spent a few months going through the desert of Western Australia and I did a night there with sort of stargazing.
Speaker B:And it really was an extraordinary experience and something that you don't take for granted because I haven't seen it since, you know, this sort of incredible sense of being so small and this, even this tiny planet in, in the, in the huge cosmos.
Speaker B:And there's definitely something very grounding about seeing the stars.
Speaker B:So these international dark sky parks that.
Speaker B:There's a number of them around the world.
Speaker B:We have one here in the UK actually in the.
Speaker B:I think it's in Northumberland.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:You have to get so far away from light pollution and it's funny, isn't it, because the word pollution and light, you don't think about it that way normally, but as you said, it's.
Speaker B:It's difficult to see the stars otherwise.
Speaker A:I read an article time ago and the specifics of it elude me, but the point of it was it said how many people or how infrequently people now look at the horizon and how infrequently we see that earth meets sky because we're always in built up areas or we're looking at phones and screens and traffic and all of the things that we have to do in our fast paced lives.
Speaker A:And you know, that, that era or that time of looking out into the, into the, into the sea or into the desert or into the mountains or whatever it might be, is something that sort of passed us by.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And that might explain how so many people have like eye issues as well now looking at computers.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's all just a foot from our eyes.
Speaker A:Yeah, indeed.
Speaker A:So one feature of places like Death Valley is their demonstration of that, of that raw power of nature.
Speaker A:And I know we've encouraged, we've talked about this briefly, but what is it about the modern world that encourages people?
Speaker A:And not all people, but there is this sense that people sort of underestimate that power of nature.
Speaker A:And I've seen this on TV and in real life where people just sort of wander off into the hills.
Speaker A:Even in England and Wales and Scotland, you know, without realizing how the weather can turn at sort of a moment's notice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And actually there is a phenomenon called death by gps.
Speaker B:This is actually a thing and has happened in Death Valley.
Speaker B:If you look it up, it will say this has happened in Death Valley.
Speaker B:So where people just blindly follow their gps, you know, in a car and end up in remote or dangerous areas or they run out of fuel and then they get too hot and they didn't have any water.
Speaker B:And so one thing is that even though we all use technology, and certainly when I've been multi day hiking, not in the desert, but even just, you know, alone hiking, having a GPS on the phone is brilliant.
Speaker B:But I always carry like a physical map.
Speaker B:And they say that in the Death Valley national park is, you know, you must carry these up to date road maps and obey road signs that say do not drive this way.
Speaker B:But I kind of love the idea of death by gps, but I don't think either of you or I would write a novel about it because it just, it just sounds like the, you know, the Darwin award, the kind of stupidest ways to die.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But coming back to your question, I do think it's part of living in these tame environments.
Speaker B:And in fact, my, my husband calls it 500 meters from food.
Speaker B:So basically if you go more than 500 meters from food, you're going a lot fewer people.
Speaker B:And so we live where, you know, if you get too hot, you can step into aircon, or if you're thirsty, you just go and buy water, or if you're hungry, you just get food.
Speaker B:And if you're tired, you call an Uber.
Speaker B:And so we think our animal bodies are somehow bulletproof.
Speaker B:You know, we can always look after our animal self.
Speaker B:And then you go somewhere like Death Valley and maybe you get hot, but your, your vehicle's broken down, there's no aircon, or you're away from the town, you can't buy water away from the town, there's nothing there.
Speaker B:This is like a wilderness.
Speaker B:And if you hike, you have to carry so much water.
Speaker B:This is what people forget is how many, you know, a liter being a kilo, you have to you have to carry a lot of weight in water.
Speaker B:So I feel like people just underestimate what nature can do and they overestimate their own capabilities.
Speaker B:I mean, even here in the uk, I, I walk a lot.
Speaker B:You know, maybe I walk 10, 10 kilometers a day or something just around town and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And a lot of people will be like, oh, you know how I can walk 10k?
Speaker B:And then you realize they only walk 500 meters a day or something around their urban space and they get in the car and so I feel like we're just so removed from how we used to live that when people go out to these places, they, they forget.
Speaker B:And there's nothing wrong with that too.
Speaker B:I would just say, definitely go with a tour guide and they will look after you.
Speaker B:So the tour I went on, they brought lunch and they had a water chilli bin and everything.
Speaker B:And then on the way back they stopped at a snack shop.
Speaker B:You know, there are places to buy stuff, but I just.
Speaker B:People think, oh, you know, it's in America and it's only a few hours drive from Vegas or whatever, but people still die in Death Valley even now.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's one of those times that I would definitely go on a tour if I was to go there.
Speaker A:And I would love to go there, actually, if I end up in that part of the.
Speaker A:Of the us, I certainly will do.
Speaker B:Oh, yes, come.
Speaker B:Come to Author Nation in Vegas and go on a day trip.
Speaker A:It's not happening this year, but it's certainly in the calendar for a year in the future.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Oh, good.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's fun.
Speaker A:I think that's absolutely true.
Speaker A:And I just as a thought there, whilst you're talking, it made me smile to myself of this current trend of people carrying like a litre barrel of water with them around the city.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:These funny cups that people use as.
Speaker A:Though they're going on a hike, when in reality they're walking from like one Uber to the, to the bus stop or to the office or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:Well, and that.
Speaker B:I think it's called the Stanley cup and it was a TikTok trend or something.
Speaker B:And of course social media has a lot of blame for many accidents.
Speaker B:I mean, near enough to Death Valley, I guess, only a few hours is the Grand Canyon and people die there doing selfies.
Speaker B:You know, they stand on the edge and do a selfie and fall off.
Speaker B:So, I mean, we all have to get nice photos, obviously.
Speaker B:And I took lots of nice photos at Death Valley, but Yeah, I think just some common sense.
Speaker B:The other thing is, even when I was there in November, I was like, I don't really know what clothes to wear because it was November, so there was a cold wind, but then down on the salt flats, it was so hot and I actually had jet lag.
Speaker B:This is another thing, I had jet lag.
Speaker B:So by the afternoon, because, you know, the UK's eight hours ahead of that area.
Speaker B:So by sort of, you know, 2:00pm, 3:00pm, it's like, oh, it's night time.
Speaker B:So I felt quite faint down in this hot area and I ended up having to sit down in the shade even in November.
Speaker B:So I just can't imagine how hot it would be in the summer.
Speaker B:And so it's not just what's happening on the outside, it's also what's happening on the inside.
Speaker B:And sort of checking in with yourself.
Speaker B:And I feel like we've maybe lost a lot of this intuition around the natural environment as well.
Speaker B:And that's something obviously our ancestors had, which was, when it's hot, sit in the shade rather than going sunbathing, you know, like British people do, and wearing a hat and all of this kind of stuff.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So in the author's note for Death Valley, which I very much enjoyed, I read it a couple of weeks ago, you share a memory of seeing the Sahara Desert and you described this in such an evocative way.
Speaker A:I loved it from the air as a child and the sense of freedom that that gave you and how that's almost sort of echoed through your.
Speaker A:Through your years since then, in your travels and your writing since then.
Speaker A:Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker B: So this was: Speaker B:My mum was teaching English at a university.
Speaker B:And so me and my brother, this was our first sort of longer plane trip and we went to school there, but on the plane over them.
Speaker B:And I remember it so vividly.
Speaker B:And this was back in the day, you know, before 9, 11, when people were allowed in the cockpit.
Speaker B:I'm not sure whether it was just kids, but certainly we were, as kids, we were like, you can go up and meet the captain and see the cockpit.
Speaker B:And we were like, oh, this is amazing.
Speaker B:But once I got up there, I just really couldn't care less about the captain, I couldn't care less about the dials and the switches.
Speaker B:I'm not sure what my brother was doing, but I was just looking out and I seem to think it was early Morning, but certainly the Sahara, as you fly over it, you could just see it.
Speaker B:It was like a movie or.
Speaker B:I don't know in my memory whether I've put a movie in it.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:But I was just.
Speaker B:I was just hypnotized by this desert and it just stretched out the horizon and I had no sense of fear at all.
Speaker B:It was more like, this is vast and there was no people at all.
Speaker B:There was no built up environment.
Speaker B:There was nothing human really.
Speaker B:And I just wanted to be out in it.
Speaker B:And I had this sense of potential freedom that I feel like I've tried to recapture many times since.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I wonder if that is why I went to Western Australia.
Speaker B: I burnt out back in the year: Speaker B:I was working in London, did the millennium bug.
Speaker B:I'm older than you, but the millennium bug was a thing.
Speaker B:And so I remember it, I remember it.
Speaker A:I was 14.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:And I was like 24, working in, in the city in London and I got really burnt out and I felt like I have to go, I have to escape.
Speaker B:And so I went to the desert, went to Western Australia and, And sort of recovered there.
Speaker B:But also there's a book called Song Lines by Bruce Chatwin, which older book now, but I always loved.
Speaker B:And then a book called Tracks by Robin Davidson, who walked across the Western Australian desert with.
Speaker B:With camels and stuff.
Speaker B:But I feel like I was sort of trying to recapture that sense of.
Speaker B:Of freedom.
Speaker B:And again, I mean, I've been in lots of deserts since.
Speaker B:In the Judean Desert near Qumran and the Sinai Desert in E.
Speaker B:And you and I have talked about Egypt, both of us been.
Speaker B:And you've been on my books and travel podcast as well, talking about that.
Speaker B:And so I think that, yeah, the deserts come up again and again, but I'd never.
Speaker B:I've put deserts in my books.
Speaker B:So Gates of Hell's got the Negevin for this book.
Speaker B:It was like Death Valley.
Speaker B:It's such a good title.
Speaker B:I was like this, this book can be all about Death Valley, but again, it's not the sand dunes of the Sahara Desert.
Speaker B:It is quite different, although.
Speaker B:Oh, it didn't say it was used in the filming Star wars for the planet Tatooine.
Speaker B:So that might bring it up in people's minds.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker A:And I think there is a perception in that.
Speaker A:A desert, I know you said earlier it was.
Speaker A:The definition is that it's a place that doesn't rain, but we've Got this idea that it's just dunes, it's just sand, but it's not, is it?
Speaker A:You have rocky things and things where there are actually sort of plants, like smaller scrubland and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It really is about the rainfall.
Speaker B:But I mean one of the, of the crazy weird things in Death Valley are these, are these salt flats and we went to this one bit called Devil's Golf Course, which is sort of all these lumps and if you look closely, they're like lumps of sand.
Speaker B:Sorry, of salt crystals in these sort of lumps around the place.
Speaker B:And that there was a hole that someone had dug and the guide took us to this hole and the salt crust went down to water underneath.
Speaker B:But the salt crust was like several meters deep and it was quite extraordinary to sort of look down and see how thick this crust was.
Speaker B:And you think there used to be a, an ocean there and you know, the, the how the water had moved over the years and I mean it's just, just a fascinating area.
Speaker B:I'm not a geologist, obviously.
Speaker B:I did also want to mention that there's this cool place called Racetrack Playa and it has these sailing stones.
Speaker B:I thought you'd like this.
Speaker B:These rocks must mysteriously move across the lake bed, leaving these trails behind them.
Speaker B:So they're like moving rocks that move across the Playa.
Speaker A:Oh, that's great.
Speaker B:I thought you'd like that.
Speaker A:There's a story there that'll get me thinking for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's talk about your story then that this place inspired.
Speaker A:What makes this the perfect setting for this sort of high stakes closed quarters thriller.
Speaker A:Cause it's very much like a powder keg, isn't it?
Speaker A:The way you've written this, you'll just throw a spark in there and let it go, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I think I've been watching this show in the uk.
Speaker B:It's called like the World's Best Hotels and I love watching it because I just, you know, you love seeing where these ultra rich people stay and you know you'd never be able to afford to stay there, but it's just like, wow, that's really cool.
Speaker B:And then the show, the White Lotus.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've watched the White Lotus.
Speaker B:Oh, it's great.
Speaker B:Again, it's really rich people in posh hotel.
Speaker B:But what happens of course is, oh, this looks amazing.
Speaker B:It's paradise.
Speaker B:And then it spirals into death and destruction.
Speaker B:And so when I went to Death Valley, there is a five star hotel in Death Valley and it's very Weird, because there's no rain, right?
Speaker B:But they've got a golf course and they've got palm trees and they've got swimming pool and they've got all this water.
Speaker B:And water is the thing that there isn't anywhere else.
Speaker B:And so I'm like, well, what happens if the hotel gets cut off?
Speaker B:You know, everyone is very civilized when there's enough, when there's enough water, when there's, you know, aircon, when there's all of this.
Speaker B:But what if this massive sandstorm and sandstorms do happen in this area and they're actually called haboobs, which is an interesting word, but that's what they're called.
Speaker B:And you know, they do come in these, these, these big sandstorms.
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, what if the sandstorm comes and these characters are trapped in the five star luxury eco hotel, and what if that cuts the hotel off from civilization and then what if the water supply is damaged and then what if the storm gets inside and then what happens to all the people who actually want to kill each other?
Speaker B:Oh, and throw in a secret Spanish mission with a lot of gold and yeah, it's kind of all hell breaks loose.
Speaker B:And I'm, I am pretty obsessed with what happens to human when we strip civilization away.
Speaker B:You know, I think we all become quite feral.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:And I enjoyed that in the book.
Speaker A:There was a pride coming before a fall, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:Like it was a bit, sort of, A bit sort of like Macbeth, you know, the way the total power, total perfection.
Speaker A:And actually, as you say, when all that crumbles behind the scenes, it's just madness and craziness and, you know, Macbeth shall sleep no more.
Speaker A:Macbeth shall sleep no more at the end.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, and I do think that environment just really sort of makes you think about what happens when it all falls apart and what each of these characters kind of has to go through and also how far some people will go for gold.
Speaker B:Because I love having an element of.
Speaker B:I know you do too, you know, the lost something and the buried something and the interesting history that, that, that we can bring to the books.
Speaker B:And even I did make up a lost Spanish mission.
Speaker B:And if people don't know the sort of 18th century and the first half of the 19th century, there were Spanish missions built in that modern day California area up from Mexico, from the, these friars who built them.
Speaker B:And I, I cover them a lot more in my thriller Valley of Dry Bones.
Speaker B:But I just Thought, well, there could have been another mission, like a lost mission in the desert.
Speaker B:And one of the sort of controversies around these missions, and then many of them are still there today, you know, near the LA area and, you know, lots of them still there.
Speaker B:But one of the controversies is how the indigenous people were treated as obviously around the world.
Speaker B:This is a controversy.
Speaker B:You know, some people will say, oh, they were baptized and they became Christians and they were happy to be part of.
Speaker B:Of the missions.
Speaker B:And then other people would say, no, they were enslaved, they were forced forcibly baptized, they were colonized.
Speaker B:They, you know, these were Spanish priests essentially helping in inverted commas, the indigenous people.
Speaker B:And so I wanted to bring that element in as well.
Speaker B:And I should also mention that in Death Valley there is a indigenous, well, indigenous group, I guess original Americans called the Timbisha Shoshone.
Speaker B:So I think really important that we mention there are still some of those people who live in Death Valley and that's their kind of ancestral land as such.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's good to bring in these sort of controversies as well as some of the religious history and some of the park history as well.
Speaker A:So every adventurer, I think, has a moment where they think during their travels or during, you know, their research process.
Speaker A:Now, this is out of a novel.
Speaker A:This is the thing.
Speaker A:Have you ever had an experience where you felt that, like that scene or you've seen part of something that you've literally taken from your life and put into.
Speaker A:Into part of the book?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I just think this is the other way around for me.
Speaker B:It's like every trip I do, I end up putting into a book.
Speaker B:I put it into a thriller and I see story everywhere and I.
Speaker B:I know you experience this too, but it's almost like I go like.
Speaker B:I was thinking of my.
Speaker B:My previous thriller, Spear of Destiny, which is in my arcane series, similar to your Eden Black series.
Speaker B:And for Spear of Destiny, I actually went to see the actual Spear of Destiny in Vienna.
Speaker B:And so I was there in the museum.
Speaker B:And of course, in my mind I'm already in the story where the people are trying to steal the spear and they're invading the museum and I was the only one in the room.
Speaker B:But I was thinking about this group who were kind of hunting me.
Speaker B:And then when I left the museum, I was trying to think about how I would escape over the rooftops.
Speaker B:And I was kind of looking up and plotting my route.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then I went down into this library where I was going to have a fight scene.
Speaker B:And as I'm moving Through these places, I'm actually almost seeing the story come to life.
Speaker B:And that's then what I write into my books.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's kind of weird because I almost wonder how much of what I go through then.
Speaker B:You know, it's like the other way around.
Speaker B:Like you're saying, it's.
Speaker B:Everything is cinematic and I go there and then I see the story.
Speaker B:Although I would say I have done a lot of scuba diving and I have had moments, like shots in my head where I'm like, wow, okay, this is straight out of a movie.
Speaker B:You know, the underwater scenes.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of diving in my books as well.
Speaker A:Do you find.
Speaker A:Just a random question.
Speaker A:Do you find a similarity between being absorbed in the ocean?
Speaker A:Not absorbed, being contained.
Speaker A:You know, diving part of the great blue expanse of the ocean in a comparison to sort of roaming the sand deserts of.
Speaker A:Of the Sahara or of.
Speaker A:Of Death Valley?
Speaker A:Could you.
Speaker A:Is there a comparison there?
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a really interesting question.
Speaker B:I think if you are above the ocean, so if you're sailing or you're on a boat where you can look out, out at the horizon and the sea is, you know, when you're above the.
Speaker B:The sea.
Speaker B:But if you are under the sea, if you're scuba diving, it's an intense kind of overload of everything.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I, I've done a lot of diving where you're close to things.
Speaker B:So you.
Speaker B:Like, if you're doing wreck diving, you know, your face is very, very close to metal hull with loads of, you know, various things on and you're looking at fish.
Speaker B:So I find, like underwater is completely the opposite.
Speaker B:It's very close study of the life because you don't go scuba diving in the middle of nowhere and you don't scuba dive to look out into the distance.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That would be weird.
Speaker B:You'd get real vertigo and that would be very dangerous.
Speaker B:But on top of the water, absolutely.
Speaker B:I think there'd be a similar sense of looking out to the horizon.
Speaker B:I did a.
Speaker B:In fact, this might be my next novel.
Speaker B: Water on a tall ship back in: Speaker B:I did that and it was so Seven Days Blue Water means all you see is blue water for seven days.
Speaker B:And it was quite extraordinary and very sort of meditative to look out and be bow watch and that's all you could see.
Speaker B:And similar.
Speaker B:And also, I guess you could also say if you run out of fresh water you're in trouble.
Speaker B:Like, you are in the desert.
Speaker B:The elements are what can also kill you.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there's definitely a lot of.
Speaker B:Of similarities.
Speaker A:Just that being away from, you know, being away from civilization and help.
Speaker A:And as you said, as your husband would say, further than the 500 meters from.
Speaker B:From food.
Speaker A:McDonald's or whatever.
Speaker A:Yeah, Starbucks.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, I absolutely understand that and I resonate with a lot of what you've said.
Speaker A:So you're a great reader and a great traveler.
Speaker A:Looking back, what adventure stories?
Speaker A:And I ask everyone on this podcast, this actually, whether they're books or movies or legends or maybe something even.
Speaker A:Even someone told you whilst you were, you know, as a child, what.
Speaker A:What stories sparked your imagination, made you want to write your own?
Speaker B:Well, I read the Hardy Boys, which I think a lot of us read.
Speaker B:And then I was recalling Willard Price.
Speaker B:Do you remember the Willard Price books?
Speaker A:I remember the name, but I can't conjure up anymore.
Speaker A:No, I'm gonna have to look them up.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Well, if people.
Speaker B:Yeah, again, depending on how old people are.
Speaker B:But they were all called adventure, so they were African adventure, South Sea adventure, safari adventure, ocean adventure.
Speaker B:Like, they all had the word adventure in the title.
Speaker B:So I read.
Speaker B:I used to devour those.
Speaker B:All the adventure books by Willard Price.
Speaker B:And then, you know, I used to watch all the.
Speaker B:On Saturdays we were allowed to watch tv.
Speaker B:Like my mum.
Speaker B:We weren't allowed to watch TV for a very, very long time.
Speaker B:And then in my teens, we got a tv and because when we lived in Africa, there was no TV and all of this.
Speaker B:And so I remember watching the A team, so the action adventure, like a team stuff.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:And also the early James Bond, like, watched a lot of early James Bond.
Speaker B:And then I moved on to, like, the Wilbur Smith adventure books, the Egypt book, particularly the Seventh Scroll, I think that's the first one in that Egypt series.
Speaker B:And I always wanted to be an archaeologist.
Speaker B:I always, you know, I learned.
Speaker B:Tried to learn all the hieroglyphics and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And then obviously, Clive Custer's Dirk Pittsburgh was, I think, was what made me want to go scuba diving.
Speaker B:And I met Clive before he died.
Speaker B:I've got a selfie with Clive.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was really thrilled about that.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I guess those were some of my sort of formative books.
Speaker A:I can see the through line definitely from what you described there into what you wrote.
Speaker A:What you write now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And of course, Indiana Jones in terms of the movie.
Speaker B:I remember, you know, that first.
Speaker B:First one.
Speaker B:And Yeah, I mean those obviously impact all of us, but I think as readers it's books first that have always sort of brought things alive.
Speaker A:Yes, I agree with that completely, Jo.
Speaker A:This has been fantastic.
Speaker A:Where can people find you your books especially Death Valley online.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B: this goes out releasing June: Speaker B:And depending on when you're listening to this, it may well be available everywhere.
Speaker B:Or you can find my other action adventure books on your favourite online platform or@jfpenbooks.com and I wanted to also say my books and travel podcast, wherever you're listening to this and Luke will be coming on to talk about how Egypt inspired your book the Giza Protocol.
Speaker B:So you know, if you want to hear some more chats between us us.
Speaker A:As usual.
Speaker A:All those links are in the show notes.
Speaker A:Big thanks to JF Penn for hanging out with us today.
Speaker A:I've absolutely loved speaking with her.
Speaker A:This, of course, as you know, is the Adventure Story podcast.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us.
Speaker A:It's been great to spend some time with you.
Speaker A:Now if you've enjoyed the show today as usual, please like, please subscribe and please share.
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Speaker A:If you have a story you'd like me to explore, let me know in the comments or on email@helloukerichardsonauthor.com and if you need more adventure in your life, and let's be honest, who doesn't, you might like to join the Adventure Society.
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Speaker A:All my books and all my podcasts are dedicated, you guessed it, to you.
Speaker A:You keep me motivated when times get tough and focused when something else threatens to to steal my attention.
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Speaker A:Thank you.
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Speaker A:Head to lukerichardsonauthor.com Patreon P A T R E O N and of course, if you're a fan of adventure stories like the one we've talked about today, check out my books@lukerichardsonauthor.com.
Speaker A:bon voyage.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Enjoy the adventure and I'll see you next time.
